i have scanned daniel chapter 9 as it is rendered in english by the hebrew tanakh (masoretic text - mt) and by the greek septuagint (lxx).. http://www.jwstudies.com/daniel_9_in_mt_and_in_lxx.pdf.
read verses 24 to 27 carefully.. doug.
Amelia and Vidqun,
Thanks for providing these renderings.
Daniel 8 and 9 are absolutely and solely focused on the ruined state of the temple at Jerusalem, so that is the only context of the "70 X 7" message from the messenger to Daniel. That is all that concerned him, and that is all that verses 24ff relate to.
Note carefully the breakdown of the 7 heptads and the 62 heptads.
Doug
i have scanned daniel chapter 9 as it is rendered in english by the hebrew tanakh (masoretic text - mt) and by the greek septuagint (lxx).. http://www.jwstudies.com/daniel_9_in_mt_and_in_lxx.pdf.
read verses 24 to 27 carefully.. doug.
Villagegirl,
Daniel 9 has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. This idea was invented some 200 years after his life and death. That is one reason there is no reference in the NT to the "times" mentioned in Daniel 9.
When the word "Christ" is used, it simply means "anointed one", which is drawn from the anointing by oil of the priestly candidate. Unfortunately, Paul used the term almost as a personal name, but "Jesus Christ" literally means "Jesus/Yeshua/Joshua the anointed".
Doug
i have scanned daniel chapter 9 as it is rendered in english by the hebrew tanakh (masoretic text - mt) and by the greek septuagint (lxx).. http://www.jwstudies.com/daniel_9_in_mt_and_in_lxx.pdf.
read verses 24 to 27 carefully.. doug.
I have scanned Daniel chapter 9 as it is rendered in English by the Hebrew Tanakh (Masoretic Text - MT) and by the Greek Septuagint (LXX).
http://www.jwstudies.com/Daniel_9_in_MT_and_in_LXX.pdf
Read verses 24 to 27 carefully.
Doug
i occasionally pop through here to catch up on the latest, but this time i'm going to pop my own post on here.. some of you internet oldsters may even remember this.
my first experience on the internet regarding discussions about jehovah's witnesses and the watchtower took place on a now-obscure usenet group, before i eventually stumbled across hourglass2.. during those days, there was a poster who went by the name "prominent bethelite," an otherwise anonymous individual whom i remember most for an extensive, exhaustive compilation of date-oriented remarks, predictions, and expectations by the watchtower organization down through the decades of its history.. it became known as "the list" and it's definitely lengthy... but a fascination look at the abundance of errant statements made through the watchtower's history.. if you're curious, it's been available for a long time on hourglass2's site, and can be seen using the link provided below.. the list, compiled by prominent bethelite (1999).
that's about it for this stop through here.
Scott
Word file: http://www.jwstudies.com/The_List_from_Hourglass.docx
PDF: http://www.jwstudies.com/The_List_from_Hourglass.pdf
Doug
"the rnwt replaces "kyrios" (lord) with "jehovah" in translating romans 14:8 as follows:.
"for if we live, we live to jehovah,*+ and if we die, we die to jehovah.
* so both if we live and if we die, we belong to jehovah.".
Islandman,
You have touched on a significant tool for analysing most of the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures - the tool's name is: Chiasm(s).
Hebrew poetry does not rhyme, it works in patterns. Determining the Chiastic structure usually helps to identify the key issue being taught. People see but they fail to know what they are seeing.
There should be any amount of information on chiasms on the www. For example, some of my chiastic analyses are available at:
http://www.jwstudies.com/chiasms_at_Matt24__Mark13__Luke21.pdf
The word "chiasm" comes from the Greek letter Chi (X). The "X" in Xmas represents the Greek letter "Chi".
Doug
i will give you a hint.
1) jar of bread 2) stick 3) two stones.. and why were they placed in the ark of the covennant????.
i'm embarrassed to say, as a former elder, schooled by the.
1. Which words from Exodus were written on the two stones?
2. Why were they written on the back and on the front?
Doug
one thing that's bothered me for a while about the use of john 6:68 (oddly, this has always been the bigger issue than the rampant replacement of 'whom' with 'where') was it's apparent condemnation by 2 timothy 4:3.. from the jw bible:.
john 6:68 - simon peter answered him: lord, whom shall we go away to?
you have sayings of everlasting life.".
The Bible is not a flat canvas. It is important to determine the context, and by that I mean the religious politics at play with each writer.
Offhand, I do not know which of these was written first, nor do I know which community was responsible for each. Scholars know that no NT writer knew Jesus personally, and that these two writings (John and Timothy) were written fairly late, probably towards the end of the first century. 2 Timothy was written by an adherent of Paul, making statements that he/they felt Paul would/should have said.
Every NT and OT writing was being addressed to its own immediate community. What would be the point of writing to them when they were writing to some 21st century group, especially to nations that they did not know? Certainly by implication one could take their opinions as useful and helpful, but little more.
As you point out, the WTS arbitarily applies "good" things in the Bible to itself and "bad" things to those that they oppose. That's politics at play.
Doug
i was watching a video on youtube about chistianity and its founding and it came to my attention that the city of nazareth did not even excist when jesus was said to be alive.
it was'nt really anything accept a cemetary until about 200 ad.
so just like the city of goshen were the israelites were said to be from when they left egypt during the exodus, looks like another major flaw in the bible..
Crazyguy,
The Bible writings are not meant to be literal historically accurate records. They are theological histories, written to make a religious point to the community that each was addressed to - and continually modified throughout time to make the writing reflect the views of each age. Just like what the WTS did - making it fit their prejudices.
When you come to the realisation that each piece is tied to the particular community and was written in order to impress and control that community, the change in attitude towards their writings opens amazing horizons. Who were these people, how did they think, what were the religious and secular politics of the time, who was trying to take control, why do we read only the views of one side of the story, who decided which writings were Scripture, how did they do it, what mistakes did they make, why did none of the people who knew Jesus prepare a written account, why did Jesus not write anything, why should we trust Paul's visions for the foundations of Christianity?
Take the Book of Acts as one example: Why does it contrast and contradict Paul? Because it was written by someone living decades after Paul's death and the writer's intention was to smooth over the stark differences between Paul and James/Peter; so "Luke" concocted a religious history. Another example: only 7 of the writings attributed to Paul are recognised by scholars as havng actually being written by him.
Recognise that the Bible is a collection of human writings selected by humans to meet their needs. It then provides an amazing insight into the people who wrote, compiled, edited, amended, copied and printed it - not that there is just one source version. And that opens up more scope for investigation.
Doug
BTW. Regarding Nazareth. I had no idea that some doubted it existed; my understanding is that Jesus/Yeshua/Joshua was born in Nazareth and that his ministry was limited geographically to that region. His venture down to Jerusalem was seen as a display against the Roman powers, that he intended to set himself up as the King of the Jews, that the Kingdom was about due. He would become King when the Son of Man would come down from heaven.
DM
i occasionally pop through here to catch up on the latest, but this time i'm going to pop my own post on here.. some of you internet oldsters may even remember this.
my first experience on the internet regarding discussions about jehovah's witnesses and the watchtower took place on a now-obscure usenet group, before i eventually stumbled across hourglass2.. during those days, there was a poster who went by the name "prominent bethelite," an otherwise anonymous individual whom i remember most for an extensive, exhaustive compilation of date-oriented remarks, predictions, and expectations by the watchtower organization down through the decades of its history.. it became known as "the list" and it's definitely lengthy... but a fascination look at the abundance of errant statements made through the watchtower's history.. if you're curious, it's been available for a long time on hourglass2's site, and can be seen using the link provided below.. the list, compiled by prominent bethelite (1999).
that's about it for this stop through here.
WOW!
I just had to make a Word and PDF file of that for myself!
Doug
some of the correspondence during the 1917 takeover of the wts by rutherford is available at:.
http://www.jwstudies.com/1917_correspondence.pdf .
since the size of the lettering is small, the correspondence is also provided in landscape format at:.
Some of the correspondence during the 1917 takeover of the WTS by Rutherford is available at:
http://www.jwstudies.com/1917_Correspondence.pdf
Since the size of the lettering is small, the correspondence is also provided in landscape format at:
http://www.jwstudies.com/1917_Correspondence__landscape_.pdf
No doubt this is available elsewhere on the www, so I would be interested to know where I can locate the related material from that time.
Thanks,
Doug
